How do the people living in Debrecen relate to the local LGBTQ community? Should everyone admit to which gender they are attracted to? Do they need even more social acceptance? In our previous interviews, we delved deeper into the topic: we spoke with Péter Frajdy, vice president of Debrecen Pride, Hella Könnyü, one of the founders of Civiscolors, and now Charlie, the owner of the club named after the Greek god that hosts gay parties in Debrecen, answered our questions. He talked about the history of the bar, acceptance, (Debrecen) Pride, and also why straight girls run away to gay parties.
You run a gay bar as a straight man. How did you get the idea?
The idea of founding the club came to me around 1998 after a conversation. One of my friends, later my business partner, always complained that he had to travel all the way to Vienna to have fun. So we did not open the umpteenth liquor store or pub but started organizing gay parties in Debrecen. Although we were a little afraid of how they would react to this in the city, we organized the first party in a boarding house on Sámsoni út. It was difficult at first, but over time we achieved that two to three hundred people visited us in one night, and all the rooms were booked for the given month.
Have the parties been running without interruption since 1998?
Apart from a five-year gap, they can be said to be continuous. On the one hand, we stopped the parties in the boarding house for economic reasons – it was difficult to heat such an area in the winter – and on the other hand, because the social scissors we call the Internet opened up. Dating sites and chat rooms appeared where people could get to know each other, so it became uninteresting for them to come to a gay party. The world was there, and they didn’t even have to leave the apartment, a high-quality webcam was enough to find a partner or even have sex. And since we couldn’t find a suitable place, we took a break from organizing the parties.
Many believe that the number of LGBTQ people has increased over the past decades…
Sociological surveys show that ten percent of society is attracted to their own sex. I think that this number has basically not changed, it has always been this much. This includes the age group under sixteen and over sixty. Of course, this circle narrows down to those who want to have fun and dare to go to such places. Because in many cases it’s about people being afraid to go to gay parties.
Are women or men more likely to attend your events?
The experience of the last five years shows that the ratio of the sexes has equalized, although previously there was a much higher proportion of men.
What could have happened to the women? Are they braver in accepting their difference?
From the stories I’ve heard from women, I know that their attraction to each other is somehow much more relaxed. Because even after a lesbian adventure with a best friend, they easily get married and have children. They don’t even have to make themselves accepted. And if two women hold hands or kiss each other on the lips in a nightclub, it will not cause any reaction from people.
Interview with Péter Frajdy, vice president of Debrecen Pride
As opposed to men?
In the case of men, there would most likely be a more impolite, or even better, a more polite remark that this should not be done after all.
Has the perception of gays changed in recent years and decades?
According to guests, yes. Debrecen nightclubs allow gays to enter, and gays are welcome in most places.
But it is not obvious that they are gay.
At a party, everyone indulges in their clothing and behavior. However, if you were to meet them on the street, it wouldn’t even cross your mind that they are gay, they would not show it on purpose. But there are those who can’t hide it.
And is it possible that those who hide it live in a “normal” relationship at home?
Anything is possible, although a man or woman in a rock-solid hetero relationship will not attend our parties for security reasons. Because if he is an athlete, politician, or artist, i.e. a more well-known person, he will not take part in our events.
Do foreigners also go to the announced parties?
Different nations used to travel in smaller groups. But it also happens that you don’t see any foreign guests at all. Maybe the ad is the reason why it reaches them sometimes and not at other times.
Do they also come from countries where it is illegal to be LGBTQ?
I rarely meet a guest from a Muslim country, but I don’t usually ask such questions. The most important information to me is how you found out about the party.
Does your club have a competition?
In the past, there were gay party organizations in Debrecen, but there was a lack of money or persistence, in countless cases, and both. When we embarked on this project, we luckily had the right financial background and support. However, the organization of these parties works a little differently than traditional events. I think that after reading an advertising text it is not certain that someone will go to a gay party. These parties spread by word of mouth, and the brand is already known in the LGBTQ community. But the fact is that competition always appears sooner or later.
Previous program lists also included transvestite shows. Can we see these kinds of performances lately?
There are no more shows like this in the bar. We stopped because they completely cut the momentum of the parties, and the DJs working with us didn’t really like it either. All events are thematically structured, and a transvestite with controversial dancing and singing skills can unfortunately interrupt the party. Not to mention that not everyone will like it since the guests want to dance and get to know each other in a way that they cannot do in another nightclub.
What else does someone who goes to a party and doesn’t meet on a dating site get?
You get the charm of personal acquaintance and the possibility of rapid dating. Dating apps work by swiping each other right or left, and at some point, a personal meeting will happen between them. Which is unlikely to happen even that night. But if someone really wants to, something can happen at our party, of course, it’s not a “thing” that can be done on the spot. We take “that kind of activity” very seriously, and if we catch someone, it will result in a permanent ban. We pay attention to such situations, but there is still reluctance from time to time.
What is the utilization rate of the place and how much does a ticket cost?
We don’t have a very large space at the Batthyány Street bar, and around a hundred people used to party at the same time. The space can handle this crowd comfortably, and it is used up. As for the entrance fee, we have a contribution, which costs HUF two thousand five hundred. Therefore, the guest receives a raffle and a drink in return.
Maybe it’s just a legend, but the rumor is that straight girls run away from straight guys to gay bars.
It is true that straight girls come to our party because they are running away from straight boys. Fifteen out of a hundred girls are sure to choose a gay party for this reason since these parties are not closed. I can still remember about a hundred people, and I know the names and addresses of half of them. Our guest list also helps with this. If a new person arrives, I ask him a few questions, for example: has he come to us before, and does he know what event he came to? If I see uncertainty in them, I tell them what kind of party it is today, and the choice is for them to stay or not. If them is incapable of making a decision, I will make the decision for them.
If someone replies that they are just wondering what the party will be like, how do you treat them?
Then you probably won’t come in, because curious people will never become permanent guests. Maybe they looking for their friends, or maybe he came with bad intentions. Of course, there are always these types of infiltrations, but the security guards already have enough experience in who they can let in. I will give two examples. One is that someone arrives with a gay group, but I can see that them is not a member of the LGBTQ community. In such cases, I ask the person I know from the team to take responsibility for it, and if a suitable answer is received, then of course you can go in.
And the other is that if you come alone, but have visited us in the past as part of a group, we will not reject you either. Our goal is that only those on our guest list can come to our parties. It is possible to get there by sending an e-mail to the announced party of the guest’s intention to participate, their name, and who will be their escort. In addition to entry and check-in, we also experienced which days it is worth holding the events. We usually adjust the parties to paydays, because the class that is on a higher level both financially and socially no longer goes to us, nor to Budapest, but rather to Vienna.
Are you trying to get ideas from other, even foreign, entertainment venues?
It is completely unnecessary and makes no sense because the attitude abroad is completely different from the one at home. Just one example of this. In the past, we also held parties in one of the bars on Piac Street, but we didn’t stay there for long, because unfortunately there were more curious people than potential guests. I think that Hungarian society could not cooperate with this and become open to it.
Such an event is not only fun, but you can also participate in on-site screenings. How should we imagine this?
Several civil organizations in Budapest, supported by the state, hold screenings. But in the last few years, unfortunately, these opportunities have narrowed a bit, and only foreign organizations contribute. At that time, a doctor, one or two assistants, and civil activists are present, and free hepatitis, syphilis, and HIV screenings are carried out. We have observed that at these events, the number of people who just dry themselves off and go home is noticeably higher. These rapid tests produce ninety-eight percent results, and for those who show a positive value, a second test in a laboratory is also recommended.
Those who go only for the test, don’t they also go for screening anyway?
It’s no secret that people are worried that those around them will find out that they went for a test, this kind of fear is present in society. Because even though we live in a big city, we can run into someone we know anywhere in Debrecen. And for those who come from a smaller settlement, it is more difficult for them to find a place where screening tests are carried out.
Do you think there is a lack of acceptance in smaller settlements?
People living in small towns and villages have no outward signs that they are attracted to their own sex. If they were to show it, they would most likely be rejected by the small circle that surrounds them. Of course, I have acquaintances who accept this, but this requires a kind of intellectual level and a higher position. In this way, they can become independent from the community that surrounds them.
If someone were to be found out to be gay or lesbian, would they be deprived of certain positions?
There must be a way when someone decides that the job is not for them after all.
We hear a lot of stories about the LGBTQ community being hurt. How do you think they should be protected? If they need protection at all.
I subscribe to the principle that if they have to be protected and we don’t develop a natural self-defense mechanism, then it will be counterproductive. Rather, there should be a monitoring organization of the kind that provides free legal protection to those who have been wronged. But I don’t feel any kind of discrimination against the gay community in this city, which would be hurtful. There is a kind of comfort sex, but as a heterosexual, I don’t consider this serious.
Do you think there is any basis for the concept of “LGBTQ lobby” pushed by the government? Or does he just bully people?
The society of Eastern Europe is not yet ready for this. In America, the press, the entertainment and hotel industries are already structured like this, and that’s all they deal with. This is currently not possible in Hungary. And not because the current government would prevent it, but because society itself is not open to it. But they don’t take it further, rather they only hinder the matter. If we only look at how many drug users there are in the lower social strata of LGBTQ, and there is no drug strategy, then what are we talking about?
Do you also experience this in the bar?
There was an example at the party where they wanted to sell something like this, but then we intervened very quickly. Because what we really don’t miss is official control, including police control. We are on the lookout, and the guests also let us know if someone tries to stay with them. And we will send it to anyone who appears to have taken something.
It always depends on a hair’s breadth to organize Pride in Debrecen. What would be the payoff if it were realized once?
I know this option comes up every year, but I wouldn’t be a part of it.
Wouldn’t you also march in solidarity?
As an individual, yes, but not on behalf of the club. I think that there is no point in organizing a Pride if it is not a national parade. I am of the opinion that no straight man takes what happens to him between the four walls to the street. And we can bet in a beer that no more than sixty people would go out to the demonstration. I only dare to say this because I’m not even sure that I could get two hundred people together for a party right now. How much would a parade earn? It is impossible to know because perhaps there would be more people who are curious and interrupting. But so be it, I reward enthusiasm.
This “four walling” hit my ears. Gays don’t jump at that?
Yes, but it’s just my opinion. I think that the legal representation of the LGBTQ will not advance, or the acceptance of a hundred people taking to the streets in Debrecen.
What do you think would be the solution?
Maybe it’s that gays and lesbians don’t hide the fact that they’re attracted to their own gender. It’s not about commitment, it’s about acceptance. Because then the question legitimately arises in me too, should I accept the fact that I am straight?
Translated from an article written by Rontó Judyt and Szilágyi Szabolcs on the Debreczeni Nap page.
